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	<title>Comments on: School of Dreams: the review</title>
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	<description>and that&#039;s the best news any of us has ever heard</description>
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		<title>By: bob</title>
		<link>http://www.nobody-knows-anything.com/2003/09/school_of_dreams_the_review.html/comment-page-1#comment-22327</link>
		<dc:creator>bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2007 01:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>hi, 


My friend&#039;s son curretnly attends Whitney and I have to say that your comments sre unjustified. These kids really work excrutiatingly hard. Getting into Yale, harvard and Prineton is a lot more challenging and competitive. Please dont ridicule the students because they are  truly amazing kids.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi, </p>
<p>My friend&#8217;s son curretnly attends Whitney and I have to say that your comments sre unjustified. These kids really work excrutiatingly hard. Getting into Yale, harvard and Prineton is a lot more challenging and competitive. Please dont ridicule the students because they are  truly amazing kids.</p>
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		<title>By: M.L. Chung</title>
		<link>http://www.nobody-knows-anything.com/2003/09/school_of_dreams_the_review.html/comment-page-1#comment-1464</link>
		<dc:creator>M.L. Chung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nobody-knows-anything.com/2003/09/school_of_dreams_the_review.html#comment-1464</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a graduate of Cerritos HS.  I remember taking an SAT prep course at Whitney HS that was open to all students in the district, Whitney just hapepned to sponsor the prep course (I don&#039;t think they do that any more).  Any how, I was first impressed by the instructor (he was a PhD teaching high school!), and then by the Whitney students who were obviously already well prepared for the SAT, much more than I was despite the fact that I also had CP (college-preparatory) and AP (advanced placement) courses at Cerritos.  About an hour into the prep course, I realized that these Whitney geeks were gonna kick my Cerrtios butt on the SAT, this was as certain as the morning sunrise.  My counterparts at Whitney were clearly better prepared than I was, and there was nothing I could do about it other than try my best.  

But perhaps it didn&#039;t matter, because I still went on to a top-3 university in California, and I went on to a great law school, and I studied international law at The Sorboone in Paris, and I have been practicing law for the past 8 years.  

I have kept in touch with some of my friends from Whitney.  The guy who graduated valedictorian from Whitney works as a senior staff computer network engineer at a university (the university I attended as an undergrad).  The guy who graduated No. 2 right behind the valedictorian is a hand surgeon, but only after being rejected from every medical school he applied to the first time he applied (obviously he finally got in, but not to any of his first choice schools).  Another guy from Whitney who did fairly well in high school now sells pharmaceuticals.  And still another Whitney guy I know is a CPA.  Don&#039;t get me wrong, all of these guys have noble professions, they all did well in life.  But as well as they did at Whitney (they all outscored me on the SAT&#039;s, had better grades than I), as well as they did, none of these guys really went on to do anything very spectacular or noteworthy.  Which is to say they did just okay.  And I&#039;m not measuring their success in dollars (the hand surgeon makes good money), I&#039;m just saying that after all of that hard work and sacrifice at Whitney, their end result was more like a firecracker rather than the hydrogen bomb explosion we might expect from such overachievers.  

Moreover, perhaps because my high school days were rather laid-back and fun (certainly not the pressure cooker experienced by the average Whitney student), I had TIME, yes, valuable TIME, to pursue and experience other things outside of pure academics that have indeed educated me and given me a much stronger platform from which to pursue life and all of its complicated issues.  The point I&#039;m trying to make is this:  The education of a young adult in their most impressionable and critical years (i.e., high school) must allow for the student&#039;s self-education through different experiences, good and bad, doing different things and going outside of one&#039;s comfort zone.  While I don&#039;t mean to criticize Whitney students, the very program that produces excellence in academics creates an environment where the students will spend most if not all of their time with kids who are exactly like themselves, doing exactly the same things, living the exact same type of life.  I&#039;m not sure if that type of socialization (or lack thereof) really benefits the student in the long run-- Reality might hit those poor kids like a ton of bricks when they finally get out of school, and when it does, many of those kids might not be able to cope with it.  

I know a brilliant guy who went to a magnet high school, graduated top of his class, went to Berkely on a full ride, got his PhD at the University of Chicago, he worked briefly as an economist for a past presidential administration -- but he couldn&#039;t cope in that environment.  He lost all his money daytrading and now he&#039;s a minor partner in a dry-cleaning business.  He spends his days taking in dirty laundry.  And while he makes decent money, and while dry cleaning is nothing to be ashamed of, I&#039;m not so sure dry cleaning is what his parents expected from their over-achieving son.  He did everything his parents wanted him to, and now he spends his days doing the same thing his parents did as immigrants to earn the very money to put him through school in the first place.  

Well, I would nevertheless consider putting my own kid through Whitney if I still lived in Cerritos, but I would try to make sure that the little bugger gets a well-rounded education for life, not just for getting high marks on exams, and put in a good dose of character building, which is really what counts in the real world.  Character, good character, goes much further than good grades.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a graduate of Cerritos HS.  I remember taking an SAT prep course at Whitney HS that was open to all students in the district, Whitney just hapepned to sponsor the prep course (I don&#8217;t think they do that any more).  Any how, I was first impressed by the instructor (he was a PhD teaching high school!), and then by the Whitney students who were obviously already well prepared for the SAT, much more than I was despite the fact that I also had CP (college-preparatory) and AP (advanced placement) courses at Cerritos.  About an hour into the prep course, I realized that these Whitney geeks were gonna kick my Cerrtios butt on the SAT, this was as certain as the morning sunrise.  My counterparts at Whitney were clearly better prepared than I was, and there was nothing I could do about it other than try my best.  </p>
<p>But perhaps it didn&#8217;t matter, because I still went on to a top-3 university in California, and I went on to a great law school, and I studied international law at The Sorboone in Paris, and I have been practicing law for the past 8 years.  </p>
<p>I have kept in touch with some of my friends from Whitney.  The guy who graduated valedictorian from Whitney works as a senior staff computer network engineer at a university (the university I attended as an undergrad).  The guy who graduated No. 2 right behind the valedictorian is a hand surgeon, but only after being rejected from every medical school he applied to the first time he applied (obviously he finally got in, but not to any of his first choice schools).  Another guy from Whitney who did fairly well in high school now sells pharmaceuticals.  And still another Whitney guy I know is a CPA.  Don&#8217;t get me wrong, all of these guys have noble professions, they all did well in life.  But as well as they did at Whitney (they all outscored me on the SAT&#8217;s, had better grades than I), as well as they did, none of these guys really went on to do anything very spectacular or noteworthy.  Which is to say they did just okay.  And I&#8217;m not measuring their success in dollars (the hand surgeon makes good money), I&#8217;m just saying that after all of that hard work and sacrifice at Whitney, their end result was more like a firecracker rather than the hydrogen bomb explosion we might expect from such overachievers.  </p>
<p>Moreover, perhaps because my high school days were rather laid-back and fun (certainly not the pressure cooker experienced by the average Whitney student), I had TIME, yes, valuable TIME, to pursue and experience other things outside of pure academics that have indeed educated me and given me a much stronger platform from which to pursue life and all of its complicated issues.  The point I&#8217;m trying to make is this:  The education of a young adult in their most impressionable and critical years (i.e., high school) must allow for the student&#8217;s self-education through different experiences, good and bad, doing different things and going outside of one&#8217;s comfort zone.  While I don&#8217;t mean to criticize Whitney students, the very program that produces excellence in academics creates an environment where the students will spend most if not all of their time with kids who are exactly like themselves, doing exactly the same things, living the exact same type of life.  I&#8217;m not sure if that type of socialization (or lack thereof) really benefits the student in the long run&#8211; Reality might hit those poor kids like a ton of bricks when they finally get out of school, and when it does, many of those kids might not be able to cope with it.  </p>
<p>I know a brilliant guy who went to a magnet high school, graduated top of his class, went to Berkely on a full ride, got his PhD at the University of Chicago, he worked briefly as an economist for a past presidential administration &#8212; but he couldn&#8217;t cope in that environment.  He lost all his money daytrading and now he&#8217;s a minor partner in a dry-cleaning business.  He spends his days taking in dirty laundry.  And while he makes decent money, and while dry cleaning is nothing to be ashamed of, I&#8217;m not so sure dry cleaning is what his parents expected from their over-achieving son.  He did everything his parents wanted him to, and now he spends his days doing the same thing his parents did as immigrants to earn the very money to put him through school in the first place.  </p>
<p>Well, I would nevertheless consider putting my own kid through Whitney if I still lived in Cerritos, but I would try to make sure that the little bugger gets a well-rounded education for life, not just for getting high marks on exams, and put in a good dose of character building, which is really what counts in the real world.  Character, good character, goes much further than good grades.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward</title>
		<link>http://www.nobody-knows-anything.com/2003/09/school_of_dreams_the_review.html/comment-page-1#comment-1463</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2004 06:55:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nobody-knows-anything.com/2003/09/school_of_dreams_the_review.html#comment-1463</guid>
		<description>A quick answer to your question as to why Asian parents come to the US to send their kids to high school here if the Asian schools are so good.  No matter how good an Asian HS might be, American Universities are still the best in the world and a degree from Harvard, Yale or even a UCLA or Berkely will open doors in any Asian company.

To get into a top American university, you need to get into a top American HS.  Does this answer your question?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A quick answer to your question as to why Asian parents come to the US to send their kids to high school here if the Asian schools are so good.  No matter how good an Asian HS might be, American Universities are still the best in the world and a degree from Harvard, Yale or even a UCLA or Berkely will open doors in any Asian company.</p>
<p>To get into a top American university, you need to get into a top American HS.  Does this answer your question?</p>
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		<title>By: Star</title>
		<link>http://www.nobody-knows-anything.com/2003/09/school_of_dreams_the_review.html/comment-page-1#comment-1462</link>
		<dc:creator>Star</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Sep 2004 07:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nobody-knows-anything.com/2003/09/school_of_dreams_the_review.html#comment-1462</guid>
		<description>Pardon my bad spelling. Just to uphold &quot;Whitney reputation&quot;, saddening is spelled this way. ^.^;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pardon my bad spelling. Just to uphold &#8220;Whitney reputation&#8221;, saddening is spelled this way. ^.^;</p>
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		<title>By: Star</title>
		<link>http://www.nobody-knows-anything.com/2003/09/school_of_dreams_the_review.html/comment-page-1#comment-1461</link>
		<dc:creator>Star</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Sep 2004 07:38:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nobody-knows-anything.com/2003/09/school_of_dreams_the_review.html#comment-1461</guid>
		<description>Hi. Well, just to add my comments to this rather &#039;dead&#039; topic (seeing as to how the last postmark was May 24), I am also a student of WHS, now in my junior year. Things have certainly changed since the couple of years that the book was published. Though things are generally the same, after reading the book I was always concerned that it was biased and didn&#039;t address everything involved. Of course Humes had to do so to gain readers and give his view, but regardless of that it is saddenning to see my school depicted this way. Even though I can be stereotyped as one of those kinds of students mentioned in the book, I am still my own unique individual in my own right. Disillusioning as this all is, I guess things have already taken their course and there is not much else to do about it. Aside from that--you don&#039;t have to make CHS pride comments here, this is just a book review -.-;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi. Well, just to add my comments to this rather &#8216;dead&#8217; topic (seeing as to how the last postmark was May 24), I am also a student of WHS, now in my junior year. Things have certainly changed since the couple of years that the book was published. Though things are generally the same, after reading the book I was always concerned that it was biased and didn&#8217;t address everything involved. Of course Humes had to do so to gain readers and give his view, but regardless of that it is saddenning to see my school depicted this way. Even though I can be stereotyped as one of those kinds of students mentioned in the book, I am still my own unique individual in my own right. Disillusioning as this all is, I guess things have already taken their course and there is not much else to do about it. Aside from that&#8211;you don&#8217;t have to make CHS pride comments here, this is just a book review -.-;</p>
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		<title>By: Erica</title>
		<link>http://www.nobody-knows-anything.com/2003/09/school_of_dreams_the_review.html/comment-page-1#comment-1460</link>
		<dc:creator>Erica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2004 00:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nobody-knows-anything.com/2003/09/school_of_dreams_the_review.html#comment-1460</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think that the author of this book intended to pit the two schools against each other. Humes did not mean to put Whitney above all the other public schools, rather displayed how such a school could succeed on what little they had through high expectations. In response to what comments I have seen on this website, Colleges do look at what school you come from when evaluating your grades, high school isn&#039;t everything, different people have different preferences, and that Anthem project probably would have succeeded if the students caught on to the concept earlier. Projects such as Anthem and Mr.Z&#039;s rockets teach the lesson for life. You&#039;ll remember experiences from those projects long before a concrete fact comes into mind. It was a wonderful book and politicians should definitly read it before running for office.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think that the author of this book intended to pit the two schools against each other. Humes did not mean to put Whitney above all the other public schools, rather displayed how such a school could succeed on what little they had through high expectations. In response to what comments I have seen on this website, Colleges do look at what school you come from when evaluating your grades, high school isn&#8217;t everything, different people have different preferences, and that Anthem project probably would have succeeded if the students caught on to the concept earlier. Projects such as Anthem and Mr.Z&#8217;s rockets teach the lesson for life. You&#8217;ll remember experiences from those projects long before a concrete fact comes into mind. It was a wonderful book and politicians should definitly read it before running for office.</p>
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		<title>By: kelly</title>
		<link>http://www.nobody-knows-anything.com/2003/09/school_of_dreams_the_review.html/comment-page-1#comment-1459</link>
		<dc:creator>kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:23:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nobody-knows-anything.com/2003/09/school_of_dreams_the_review.html#comment-1459</guid>
		<description>I also attended Whitney, but left after 8th grade to attend Cerritos HS. After watching me at 12-years-old waking-up every morning at 5am to study before class, spending all my weekends attempting to memorize random details out of novels, and freaking out everytime &quot;comps&quot; came around, my parents thought I should consider the change. It wasn&#039;t an easy decision (we had conferences with my teachers, advisors, etc.), but we eventually decided that because I had other interests (softball, soccer, track) it would be better for me to transfer. Although I have to admit that my first semester at Cerritos was a cake-walk compared to Whitney, I don&#039;t feel that my decision was wrong. I was able to have more of a social-life, letter in three sports (one of which didn&#039;t even have a girls team at Whitney) and still make it into my college of choice...and when I saw former Whitney students at this same university, I couldn&#039;t help but feel bad knowing how much harder they probably worked to get get there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also attended Whitney, but left after 8th grade to attend Cerritos HS. After watching me at 12-years-old waking-up every morning at 5am to study before class, spending all my weekends attempting to memorize random details out of novels, and freaking out everytime &#8220;comps&#8221; came around, my parents thought I should consider the change. It wasn&#8217;t an easy decision (we had conferences with my teachers, advisors, etc.), but we eventually decided that because I had other interests (softball, soccer, track) it would be better for me to transfer. Although I have to admit that my first semester at Cerritos was a cake-walk compared to Whitney, I don&#8217;t feel that my decision was wrong. I was able to have more of a social-life, letter in three sports (one of which didn&#8217;t even have a girls team at Whitney) and still make it into my college of choice&#8230;and when I saw former Whitney students at this same university, I couldn&#8217;t help but feel bad knowing how much harder they probably worked to get get there.</p>
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		<title>By: co/03</title>
		<link>http://www.nobody-knows-anything.com/2003/09/school_of_dreams_the_review.html/comment-page-1#comment-1458</link>
		<dc:creator>co/03</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2003 07:11:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nobody-knows-anything.com/2003/09/school_of_dreams_the_review.html#comment-1458</guid>
		<description>And one last thing: a lot of the quotes in the book are inaccurate, or at least have been touched up in some way.  I spoke to the &quot;Tony&quot; quoted often in the book, and in fact he never did take AP French, for example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And one last thing: a lot of the quotes in the book are inaccurate, or at least have been touched up in some way.  I spoke to the &#8220;Tony&#8221; quoted often in the book, and in fact he never did take AP French, for example.</p>
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		<title>By: co/03</title>
		<link>http://www.nobody-knows-anything.com/2003/09/school_of_dreams_the_review.html/comment-page-1#comment-1457</link>
		<dc:creator>co/03</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2003 07:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nobody-knows-anything.com/2003/09/school_of_dreams_the_review.html#comment-1457</guid>
		<description>As someone who just graduated from Whitney last year (the book was written mostly about the class of 2002; we were juniors at the time), I want to set the record straight:
The book is good, but it exaggerates a lot.  First of all, Whitney is not nearly as exciting as the book makes it sound.  Like any author, Humes did a good job of cutting out the boring, day-to-day parts and focused on the stand-out events, so don&#039;t SoD presents a good picture of daily life at Whitney.
Secondly, we did have individual essays plenty of times; Humes was definitely exaggerating when he gave the impression that Whitney NEVER gave out individual essays until senior year.  I wrote my first individual essay at Whitney the fourth week of school in Brown&#039;s 7th grade English class (and yes, she finally left last year, to other alumni who were wondering).  We had many group projects that had group essay components also, along with many group projects with individual essay components, but I never felt like group essays were dominant in any way.
Thirdly, remember that he focused heavily on seniors, most of whom (like seniors everywhere) just didn&#039;t care about HS anymore.  So if Whitney students as a whole sound like slackers in the book, that&#039;s where it comes from.
Fourthly, he is right about the whole IMing wasting loads of time, and Whitney students treat procrastination as a badge of honor, but the reviewer apparently failed to read the part about how 8th graders at Whitney put up with 4 hours of homework a night, which is pretty accurate.  Junior year can reach 7-8 hours of work a night average, including weekends and on top of activities.
Fifthly, (and this refers back to point #1) not all parents, or even most, blame the teachers for their students&#039; failing grades.  Most students, in fact, don&#039;t really care about getting all As, though there is definitely a sizeable minority that do.  Furthermore, the figures I&#039;ve seen hurled around here about how &quot;10% of the class gets a 4.0&quot; and in the book about how &quot;frequently there are more than a dozen valedictorians&quot; is grossly inaccurate - for the class of 2001, there were 4 valedictorians, 2002 had 8, and 2003 had 6, for class sizes of about 165-178 students.
Sixthly, Humes&#039; characterization of the entire Anthem uproar was accurate, but he fails to mention that the entire exercise was widely derided by parents and students, both within that specific class and within other classes as well, as being a massive waste of time, burning up an entire week of having students sit and sharpen pencils by the door for the entire period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who just graduated from Whitney last year (the book was written mostly about the class of 2002; we were juniors at the time), I want to set the record straight:<br />
The book is good, but it exaggerates a lot.  First of all, Whitney is not nearly as exciting as the book makes it sound.  Like any author, Humes did a good job of cutting out the boring, day-to-day parts and focused on the stand-out events, so don&#8217;t SoD presents a good picture of daily life at Whitney.<br />
Secondly, we did have individual essays plenty of times; Humes was definitely exaggerating when he gave the impression that Whitney NEVER gave out individual essays until senior year.  I wrote my first individual essay at Whitney the fourth week of school in Brown&#8217;s 7th grade English class (and yes, she finally left last year, to other alumni who were wondering).  We had many group projects that had group essay components also, along with many group projects with individual essay components, but I never felt like group essays were dominant in any way.<br />
Thirdly, remember that he focused heavily on seniors, most of whom (like seniors everywhere) just didn&#8217;t care about HS anymore.  So if Whitney students as a whole sound like slackers in the book, that&#8217;s where it comes from.<br />
Fourthly, he is right about the whole IMing wasting loads of time, and Whitney students treat procrastination as a badge of honor, but the reviewer apparently failed to read the part about how 8th graders at Whitney put up with 4 hours of homework a night, which is pretty accurate.  Junior year can reach 7-8 hours of work a night average, including weekends and on top of activities.<br />
Fifthly, (and this refers back to point #1) not all parents, or even most, blame the teachers for their students&#8217; failing grades.  Most students, in fact, don&#8217;t really care about getting all As, though there is definitely a sizeable minority that do.  Furthermore, the figures I&#8217;ve seen hurled around here about how &#8220;10% of the class gets a 4.0&#8243; and in the book about how &#8220;frequently there are more than a dozen valedictorians&#8221; is grossly inaccurate &#8211; for the class of 2001, there were 4 valedictorians, 2002 had 8, and 2003 had 6, for class sizes of about 165-178 students.<br />
Sixthly, Humes&#8217; characterization of the entire Anthem uproar was accurate, but he fails to mention that the entire exercise was widely derided by parents and students, both within that specific class and within other classes as well, as being a massive waste of time, burning up an entire week of having students sit and sharpen pencils by the door for the entire period.</p>
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		<title>By: @!</title>
		<link>http://www.nobody-knows-anything.com/2003/09/school_of_dreams_the_review.html/comment-page-1#comment-1456</link>
		<dc:creator>@!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nobody-knows-anything.com/2003/09/school_of_dreams_the_review.html#comment-1456</guid>
		<description>What I heard was, &quot;if you can&#039;t cut it at Whitney, go to Cerritos.&quot;

Whitney, by itself, isn&#039;t nearly as hard as the book tries to pretend. Getting As is mostly about being motivated -- it&#039;s still the overwhelming grade in every class because there&#039;s a set level of performance for each grading tier. 10% of each graduating class are valedictorians because they all have 4.0s. It only really becomes difficult when your goal is to destroy the test, simply because you aspire to that ability. Sure, we all could have gotten by at easier schools, but is that any way to live? In an age of robber barons, do-what-you-can-get-away-with policies, and take-advantage-of-the-system mentality, what is the right attitude?

More importantly, the world is so much bigger than the little nothing town of Cerritos. If you want to compete at that level, Whitney is just a very small taste of what&#039;s out there -- especially once you get to college or medical school. In my experience, the people who have achieved the most and done the greatest things are from all over the place, and the thing they have most in common -- more than natural ability or Herculean effort -- is a sense, a vision, and a true desire of what they want to achieve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I heard was, &#8220;if you can&#8217;t cut it at Whitney, go to Cerritos.&#8221;</p>
<p>Whitney, by itself, isn&#8217;t nearly as hard as the book tries to pretend. Getting As is mostly about being motivated &#8212; it&#8217;s still the overwhelming grade in every class because there&#8217;s a set level of performance for each grading tier. 10% of each graduating class are valedictorians because they all have 4.0s. It only really becomes difficult when your goal is to destroy the test, simply because you aspire to that ability. Sure, we all could have gotten by at easier schools, but is that any way to live? In an age of robber barons, do-what-you-can-get-away-with policies, and take-advantage-of-the-system mentality, what is the right attitude?</p>
<p>More importantly, the world is so much bigger than the little nothing town of Cerritos. If you want to compete at that level, Whitney is just a very small taste of what&#8217;s out there &#8212; especially once you get to college or medical school. In my experience, the people who have achieved the most and done the greatest things are from all over the place, and the thing they have most in common &#8212; more than natural ability or Herculean effort &#8212; is a sense, a vision, and a true desire of what they want to achieve.</p>
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